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- Written by: Coach Jay James
Good Morning Coaches,
Just some observations and thoughts on the 2025 3A Boys Tennis Dual Team State Playoff Bracket thus far. I was hoping the last 2 years that these things would not happen but how wrong I was. How can we stop the madness?
Had 2 forfeits in the 1st round, again!
You have the #1 overall seed having to play arguably the best team in the state in 3A in the 3rd round? What a great way to reward our #1 overall seed of the bracket!
You have a struggling (4-9) team (#20+ seed) that finished 5th place in their conference somehow advancing to the 3rd round of the state 3A tournament? The same team that lost 9-0 to two top 12 seeded teams in the bracket TWICE EACH and lost to two conference teams which received seeds in the upper teens TWICE EACHI It is crazy that roughly half the teams in the bracket would have a really really good shot at beating this particular team but those teams ended up losing in the first round. But hey, I am sure we would all like that kind of draw every year!
You have a very solid (#20+ Seed) defeat a good top 12 seed in the first round, defeat an even better top 5 seed in the 2nd round and should have a great match against a top 4 seed in the bracket in the 3rd round! No way this particular team should end up EVERY year on the low 20's line to upset teams that should be advancing much further!
I could go on, and on, and on, but the reality is that some of the best teams are losing early and some of the weaker teams are advancing in 3A at least. In my humble opinion the problem is two fold! There are teams who play the most difficult schedules in the state finish 10-6, and get a much higher seed than they deserve! Then on the flip side you have teams from weaker conferences that play weaker schedules finish 12-1 every single season, and end up with a high seed. Did anyone happen to see the individual scores in MaxPreps between #7 Overhills and #26 Wakefield in the 1st round of the 4A bracket? I am really hoping this new 1A-8A change and the change to the playoffs will remedy this, but I am not holding my breath!
Coach Jay James
3 comments- Details
- Written by: Wayne NMN Giese
First I am new to having tennis athletes that have moved on to regional, state and dual team competitions so I am in the learning process. I have to wonder, at least in the dual team match up finals, if consideration might be given to having a neutral site for the match? What do you as coaches and AD's consider the pros and cons to that?
Thanks!
Head coach-Wayne Giese
NCSSM-Morganton
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- Written by: Vic Ramsey
I'm concerned about the number of lop-sided "blowout" contests in the early rounds of the playoffs. Last fall, for instance, in the 3A East, there were two first-round matches in which the losing team lost all six singles matches by 6-0, 6-0 scores ... that's 72-0.
Blowouts aren't limited to tennis, of course. Virtually every sport we play sees blowout losses in the early rounds of the playoffs.
Blowouts are bad for sports ... winners don't know whether they should keep playing hard, losers are humiliated by mercy rules or running clocks, winners get cocky, losers get frustrated, tempers flare, no one learns anything, and no one wants to watch, either.
Some say the answer is to limit the draws, but finding a metric that identifies the "worthy" teams, and eliminates the "unworthy" teams is devilishly difficult, as history demonstrates.
Here's a different idea ... stagger the bracket.
As the ACC has expanded, the conference has attempted to protect its best basketball teams from having to play four games in four days, immediately prior to the NCAA tournament. The mechanism that has been developed to accomplish this is the staggered bracket.
It works like this: the top 4 teams get a double-bye, meaning they don’t have to play until the third round. The next four teams get a single-bye, meaning that they don’t have to play until the second round. The remaining teams play first-round matches against one another.
This results in the #16 team playing #9, not #1, in the first round. That’s a lot more manageable, and the contest is much more even. The winner advances to play #8, and the winner of that contest plays the #1 seed. The rest of the bracket works the same way.
Imagine a staggered bracket for the NCHSAA playoffs. Let’s say the draw is 32 in the East and 32 in the West. In each region, the top eight teams would get a double-bye, and the next eight would get a single-bye.
The bottom half of the draw would play one another in the first round. The winners would advance to the second round, to play the #9 - #16 teams. The second-round winners would play the top eight seeds in the third round, and the tournament would proceed normally from that point on.
The results would be much more even first-round contests, with both teams having a decent chance at victory. The truly powerhouse teams would not have to waste time, and risk injury, playing a contest they really can’t lose.
And, when a team finally did play that powerhouse, in the third round, they’d already have won at least one contest in the playoffs. So, even if they do lose to that state championship caliber team by forty points in the third round, they can go home to their awards ceremony and brag that they won at least one game, and maybe two, in the state playoffs.
That’s a much better playoff experience than getting destroyed by the #1 seed in the first round.
This process does take an additional playing date to complete (seven play-dates for a 64-team draw instead of six).
And, it may not be suited for football, as few coaches of really good teams will want to wait three weeks from the end of the regular season to their first playoff game (though that’s for football coaches to decide). I note that having a 48-team field with byes for the top 16, would accomplish a similar purpose.
But, for volleyball, basketball, dual-team tennis, softball, baseball, soccer, and perhaps, even wrestling, because these sports can be played two or three times a week, this process would work just fine, and blowouts would be minimized to a great extent.
So ... fellow coaches, what do you think?
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- Written by: Coach Jay James
Good Afternoon Coaches,
I hope your seasons are going well and maybe soon this pollen will be gone! I wanted to ask a question and make a couple comments about the NCHSAA RPI that had been up and running until last week.
I thought it was pretty neat how the RPI showed the statewide rankings in each classification and what each team was ranked no matter their location. I told Caitlin I really wish the NCHSAA would do two separate RPI rankings, one for the entire state for each clssification and another one that splits it up into east and west for the dual team tennis state playoffs. I am sure that is something they can do but I am not sure they really want to do that. What do you think? Do you think it would be useful to see an RPI ranking for the entire state as the season begins and progresses? Or are you good with only showing the RPI for the east and west separately?
And does anyone trust the UTR ratings to be more accurate than you use to? I know some players UTR's are very accurate and some are very inaccurate. Are there any plans in the future to base lineup protests on some sort of actual metrics rather than some coaches eye test, or some expert parents opinion, or a coaches decision for one reason or another? This is my 28th year as a tennis professional, 8th year as a high school coach, have playerd high school, played college, and played professional tournaments back in my younger days! And it is pretty simple to manipulate the UTR if you know where to place your players and if they don't play tennis tournaments all the time. Lets say I put my #3 player at #6 and keep him or her there all season and she goes undefeated. His or her UTR will not be that high because they would be beating mostly UTR 1's and UTR 2's all season. I have heard this being talked about by several coaches and I just wish there was a good way to measure this not by what random coaches, parents, or players think but actual accurate metrics!
Coach Jay James
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- Written by: Chris Lee
Hey Coaches,
Pardon my ignorance if this has already been discussed or addressed but I wanted to confirm that there is no issue to have a voluntary tennis ladder for high school tennis players to use during the off-season (especially during dead periods). Since it is voluntary, I don't believe that it is against the rules but it will require me to help set it up so I can't have complete plausible deniability :)
Just wanted to check with those in the know before getting things set up.
Thanks for any information you can provide!
Best,
Chris Lee